Compilation of comments

 More recent comments from Reddit:

-----Subtle definitions of terms, like "chivalry" and "gentleman's club"

A question in another sub reminded me of a few terms that felt contradictory to me, as I was growing up. I was born in 1965, and my experiences with these terms were informed by books, religious indoctrination, TV shows and movies, as well as the way I watched society use these terms. Many of these terms have fallen out of common usage, but one term, chivalry, does show up occasionally, in a few conversations I have seen recently. 

I grew up loving the TV show, Mash. I also enjoyed the original movie, when I first saw it as a teenager. I received the full box set of episodes, specials, original movie, and interviews, as a birthday gift around 25 years ago. My kids and I watched reruns of this show as they were growing up.  

At some point during the last decade, watching reruns of this show became a real lesson for me, in how my peers and I grew up absorbing so many toxic ideas surrounding misogyny and masculinity. The way patriarchy was a built in systemic and accepted normality for me became much clearer, as I realized what my generation had once watched without batting an eye. The diminishment of rape and sexual harassment into running jokes, and the way the most respected men in the camp were the ones who could masterfully use coercion in a "gentlemanly" manner, in order to get laid, stand out now, in so many of the episodes. For me, it is disturbing to remember how I could not see any of this, as I watched this show religiously while in my teens. (I do not think any sections of the show should be removed or banned. It does paint an honest picture of life in our society, during the 1950s war era, and again later, when the movie and series were created.)

I do remember being confused by one particular scene, while I was still a teen. That scene didn't sit right with me. Hawkeye and Margaret were with Klinger at an aid station, and after a crazy day, they are trying to get some sleep. Margaret is concerned about nearby enemy activity. Hawkeye shares his blanket with her and scoots closer. Then he tells Margaret, "I want you to know, chivalry isn't dead. It's just been replaced by exhaustion." I remember wondering why he would equate "chivalry" with being awake enough to turn that moment into sexual activity. Why did it seem like he was saying that he couldn't be chivalrous enough to fuck her, because he was too tired? It sometimes felt like "chivalry" simply meant a man being more subtly coercive at getting sex, in order to not appear rapey. It was like a man who could be better at manipulating a women into sex, a man more well-versed in coercion, was somehow a more decent, chivalrous man. The kind of man who chose to frequent "gentleman's club," instead of simply paying for sex on the street. Which brings me to the 2nd term that was also troubling to me, as a teen. Was discretion and wealth the only character differences between all of the men who sexualized and objectified women? Was a man sipping cognac, smoking cigars with other men as they enjoyed women being objectified in an opulent setting, really more decent than a man getting a lap dance in a cheap strip club? 

I am in no way asking all of this to get into the subject of sex-work. I am just looking back at how I instinctively viewed certain terms as definitions that to me, seemed to be saying that men sexualized and objectified women, but decent men did it with better coercion techniques, and more discretion.-----

-----Sexualized children do not understand what adult predators are doing, the ways adult predators lie to them and manipulate them. Grooming is not something any sexualized child understands. Adult predators are the ones who tell these youth that they are finding their own sexuality, but that is not true, when older predators are exploiting these sexualized children.

Children who are not sexualized as toddlers/preteens, tend to search for their natural sexuality through peer interactions. That is natural. As in how nature intended. Puberty happens to most children roughly around the same age, and the slowing of the sexual organs also happens at roughly the same age. Humans are meant to be naturally experiencing sexuality with their peers. But in our patriarchy, it is afab children who are sexualized as early as toddlerhood, by everything marketed to them. Not amab children. And in our patriarchy, medicaid/medicare provides medical methods for older males to bypass the natural progression of their own physiology. Birth control may start to be less available for child-bearing humans, soon, but no way will the availability of ED medications ever be stopped. Convicted sexual predators can often get medicaid/medicare to cover the cost of such prescriptions. The natural progression of how male fertility is meant to work is seen as a dysfunction. Meanwhile, a pregnant person who medically needs an abortion will sometimes go thru hell trying to get actually necessary medical care.  

This is how our patriarchy works. Afab children are sexualized/objectified before they can read, then told they are making strong feminist choices by having their natural sexuality be totally manipulated by old predators. Nothing about this empowers anyone but sexual predators.-----

-----There is something much deeper happening, when it comes to the way afab children are being treated, in our society. It is why teen girls are going thru what they go thru.  

The documentary Pretty Baby addresses how this started, as a reaction to the first waves of feminism. It has gotten so much worse. While targeting youth for things like alcohol and tobacco have received pushback, the sexualization and objectification of afab children from toddlerhood on has not received any pushback. Instead, it has exponentially grown.  

We do not tell a 13 yr-old who consumes alcohol that if they know how to make a complicated mixed drink, this means they are mature enough to be given alcohol by adults. We criminally charge adults who provide youth with alcohol. We do not say a child with a drinking problem is making mature choices and is developing self-agency bcuz they drink a lot. Joe Camel was retired, and candy cigarettes are no longer on the shelves of most stores. E-cigarettes had to discontinue flavors enticing children, because we know a child who smokes/vapes is not making mature choices from a place of self-agency. But we have allowed afab children to be sexualized and objectified younger and younger, we allow adult men to interact with these sexualized children younger and younger, and as these girls are showing the symptoms of being sexualized and objectified, we blame these girls by telling them they are making powerful mature feminist choices, we ascribe self-agency to these underage girls. And who is benefitting? The adult men who are grooming these girls and sexually exploiting them for whatever they want are the only ones who benefit. Our teen girls are self-harming and killing themselves at higher rates than ever. We are allowing the destruction of our afab children. This is not their fault at all. But adult men say these afab children are mature, and are exercising self agency. They groom these girls to blame themselves with those very words.

As someone who experienced CSA starting at 2, and was trafficked by my hooker stepmother to her clients and for CP, I was blamed for all of the old men who re-exploited me, starting with my sda school principal when I was 13. It has horrified me to see how that outright slut-blame I received has been manipulated into some sort of mature feminist decision these sexualized children are making. It is blame, wrapped up in a bs bow. These girls are ending up with mental health issues, slicing themselves up, and killing themselves. And the predators just move on to the next girls.  

It makes me feel physically ill, to watch this happen to children.

Teen girls can have no idea what their natural sexuality might have been, when they are sexualized as small children. Natural exploration of sexuality for afab children is not happening. What 14 yr-old girls are experiencing now is not their choice at all. But they truly believe it is. And it is harming larger numbers of them than ever.-----

-----These trauma responses are the symptoms of childhood sexualization. It can take a long time to fully understand where these symptoms are coming from. CSA creates internal beliefs and damage that leave us suffering for a long time.  

For me, it took me learning to view my younger self as the child I had actually been, and no longer seeing my young self as some"bad, hypersexual child," like everyone always told me I was. I did not "cause" any old predator to harm me. Lifting all blame off my child self, and placing it on the predators who first harmed me, started to make me want to protect myself, because I saw myself as worthy of protection. This, in turn, made me learn to see predators for exactly who they are choosing to be. Where I once was easily manipulated and re-exploited by such predators, I can now spot them, and bcuz I now understand what they are truly capable of, and how they are harming damaged young survivors who are not at fault, I immediately set boundaries with them. The reward of finally being capable of keeping myself safe is so much better than anything I once believed I was getting, when I was still caught in the awful cycle of being re-exploited by manipulative old predators. It took me a long time, but I am in such a better place, now.  

I hope you find whatever healing will help you keep yourself safer, and give yourself the protection and care nobody else gave you when you were younger. You deserve to be safe, and to find healing.-----

-----For me, the freedom to naturally grow into our own individual sexuality would be ideal. We should all have such freedom. But I do run into a big red flag, when I see afab children being sexualized from toddlerhood on, who are interacting with adult men on apps as preteens/teens, then being told they are making strong feminist choices when they are being groomed and lied to and sexually exploited by these older predators. Children are not wiser because they are sexualized younger. These predators are the same sick misogynists who have been sexually exploiting afab children forever.  

Predators are finding ways to twist feminism into words that these youth can't possibly grasp. There is nothing natural or healthy about old men fucking kids. If we don't allow patriarchal ideas to warp feminist language into words those same predators use to have earlier access to afab children, then children will be able to discover what they truly want for themselves as they mature. If we let all kids naturally grow into their own sexuality instead of having it marketed to half of them before they even start school, then all kids have a better chance to discover their own preferences and experiences. Telling a sexualized afab child that them being groomed by an old sexual predator is a strong feminist choice, telling them they have the wisdom and agency to "choose" to be sexually exploited by a sexual predator, is another form of victim blaming. The only people who are gaining anything from all of this are old sexual predators. The same men who have been controlling patriarchies for eons.-----

-----I do not agree with the ideas I have read about Louis Perry's views. But I have noticed a trend where, in advocating for equality in the way adults are choosing to express their own sexuality, there are some predators twisting that freedom to include their sexual exploitation of afab children.  

I am a never married, never gonna be married, sexually active female, who chooses to take part in intimate interactions with other non-partnered peers of all genders. I have involuntarily worn that damn scarlet letter my whole adult life, and experienced the slut-shaming that comes with it. I do not believe in shaming any consenting adults for anything they are choosing to do with other consenting adults. But I take absolute exception to the CSA/CP/trafficking I experienced as a child, and the resulting sexual re-exploitation I continuously experienced from 13 on, as somehow being a part of my own stong, feminist decision making. That is simply twisting words to continue blaming sexualized afab children for what adult predators are doing to them because of the symptoms sexualized children go thru as teens.

I hope I explained this better. It has been disturbing to watch more children be sexually exploited and re-exploited like I was, and see how blame is now being twisted into some sort of strong feminist choice these kids are making. That is something I believe needs to be made clear whenever we are discussing sexual equality.-----

-----I have not spent time delving deeply into her beliefs, but I feel my internal temp rise, too, whenever I hear anything that will increase the shaming of women for exercising sexual freedom.-----

-----The re-exploitation of survivors is a common, ignored, and accepted practice in our society. Adult predators see every child experiencing CSA as a potential future victim of their own perverse desires. They know these children are now going to be mentally compromised, which makes them easier to re-exploit and blame. They know these survivors have damaged abilities to set boundaries. They know that a harmed CSA survivor will be sent into the "flight or fright or freeze" state of mind whenever they feel threatened again. That means the predator can enjoy feeling like they are actually physically assaulting such a child, because the threat of being put thru something that survivor already had to go thru, causes the survivor's mind to react as if they are really experiencing CSA again. Some of these predators take it a step further, and start off by acting compassionate toward the survivor, offering to help the survivor, because they know these children need support and help to recover. These grooming predators do all of this in order to con the survivor into trusting them, so the predator can sexually re-exploit that survivor again. 

I believe part of the reason society does not do more to stop CSA/CP/trafficking, is because a significant portion of society sees such moments of abuse as the very activities that create youth who are easier to re-exploit, and then blame. Until society calls out such re-exploiting predators, and blames them for what they do to survivors instead of blaming the survivors, I don't believe the crimes encompassing CSA will ever lessen. These crimes have increased exponentially in the last few decades, and I believe that until these CSA crimes are no longer viewed as a sick aphrodisiac by such a large percentage of society, there will never be a real endeavor to see the eradication of CSA.

I am so sorry you were subjected to such sick re-exploitation, OP. The way your history has created mental and emotional symptoms that are harmful and painful for you, should never be viewed by anyone as an effed up chance to harm you even more. I'm glad you shut off DM's. No one online should be trying to communicate privately with you about any of this.

Your words here are an example of the strength you are developing. You are speaking up for yourself, and working to keep yourself safe. I hope you continue doing this for yourself, as you work toward healing.

I wish you continued healing and growth and safety in the future.-----

-----Any of the childhood abuses that destroy our ability to set, or even sense when we need, boundaries, leave us vulnerable to exploitation by predators. Such abuses keep us from developing a natural sense of ourselves, a sense that we each deserve to have nurtured in us as we grow up.

I am so sorry you went thru being harmed by just such a predator 💔❤️‍🩹-----

-----Aileen Wuornos was so harmed by re-exploitation, it was heartbreaking. Even a christian woman who said she was trying to help Aileen, after Aileen had been incarcerated, tried to turn that "helper" relationship with Aileen into something sexual. Aileen must have viewed her life as one sexual predator after another, just wanting to re-exploit her over and over. No one ever saw her as a human who deserved anything else. No wonder she wanted to stop legally fighting to delay her execution. She is an extreme example of society never once noticing what predators did to her from toddlerhood on. Society still compares her to other serial killers. I do not see her as a Gacy or Dahmer. Once she first experienced CSA, she was constantly re-exploited sexually. It completely destroyed her to be sexually re-exploited by everyone her whole life 💔-----

-----OP, anyone who can't say what they want to say to you right here, in front of everyone, don't trust them. You can shut off message and chat options. I highly recommend doing that. Just as irl, there are lots of predators here who troll SA subs for their effed up perversions. But decent people are here, too, and they won't be sending DM's. Because they understand exactly why you posted this 💔 

I am so sorry you have had to deal with these jerks.------