AA, 12-step, 13-stepping, Anonymous

I was court ordered to attend 20 AA meetings back in the mid '90's.  At my first such meeting,  I had a man immediately start trying to interact with me.  He said his many years' experience made him a reliable sponsor, and he thought he could help me.  Later that evening, while I was outside smoking, a couple of female members caught up with me and told me about  the 13th step.  Over the years since then, as I pinpointed and admitted my area of addiction, I attended SAA meetings in an urban area hours from where I lived.  I have lots of friends and family in different 12-step and recovery groups.  Two of the best things I memorized and have found to be consistently reliable have come from such meetings.   First, when someone shows you who they are, believe them.   And second, time plus behavior equals truth.  

Here are a couple of emails I sent to wtfpod.com, changed enough to protect identifying people and places.

"you know this, right?"

Oct 17, 2022, 8:14 AM

A group I went to for awhile in a nearby area (there is nothing safe or anonymous about most mixed Anonymous meetings in the rural area around me that I tried to attend years ago, so I had to hit meetings elsewhere), an older woman who had been working the steps for years spoke truth to me. It helped me take the time to make myself focus on that moment when I was 7, and my mom was weeping, once again, over my father's philandering.  That woman in the meeting spoke truth like I had never heard before. Later, while having an after-meeting smoke with another member, I was told the truth-speaking woman had not followed guidelines by how she spoke to me. So I know what I am about to write here might not be viewed as correct. But I am going to type to you very similar words to the ones that woman spoke to me.

Are you one of those AA members who finds ways to rationalize relationships with young female AA members by befriending or sponsoring them, even though AA discourages this? I cannot tell you how many men in various Anonymous groups have tried to worm their way into my life by doing exactly that. Sorry to sound all preachy and shit, but I like truth, and the truth is, you need to never be involved in supporting in any way, shape, or form, any broken females, ever, for any damn thing that will involve you privately communicating with that female. (You also probably might think about hiring household employees who are exclusively male, too, as you appear to be unable to stop yourself from exploiting a number of your female employees...) You have actually publicly made it clear for years that you have a real problem with how you view your dick, how you view broken girls, how you view females in general as humans, and how you view sex. I can rehear you, in the Dopey podcast, trying to keep the definition of "predator" away from your behavior. You want your behavior to be defined as "codependency." Well sure, codependency goes on in your life. But you do not get to shine up a shit pile with snake oil. You purposely target broken girls, very young females who have been sexualized and objectified by those around them who should have treated them in a manner that helps them not become fucked up adults. There is nothing codependent between you and a sexualized girl. That is a predatorial relationship. You go looking for those girls. You have publicly spoken about doing that. On stage and on late night shows, you bragged about doing this. You groom, dogwhistle, and encourage them to come near. Constantly. You need to stop lying to yourself that you are ever capable of caring for broken girls. There was, and is, never a moment of equality or compassion or anything else decent in those interactions you purposely create with broken girls. The last thing you need is someone insinuating themselves into your life and subtly getting you to drink.  Sexualized girls are not made better when an older AA member grooms them to have sex. 

Predators who cannot say no to their sexual impulses that cause damage to those young enough to be their children or grandchildren, need to stick with closed, SLAA groups. Such predators try to reframe and redefine their addiction to avoid doing this. You want to go to ACOA groups, yet another 12-step group full of broken girls you know damn well you will fuck. That is a very real threat to the mental health of broken females.  Just since September of 2020, you have groomed, re-exploited,  and left suicidal, 3 girls that I am aware of.

You need to admit this shit.  Actual lives are at risk as long as you are not honest.

Gonna go have a smoke, as if I am exiting the basement where a meeting just ended. And perhaps feel like this was an especially wasted email as I smoke. Fucking hell, Maron, quit harming broken girls with your internal rationalizations and lies. Those broken girls already deal with more than enough hell.  

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Truth

Oct 18, 2022, 11:47 AM

"You can't handle the truth!"

Yeah, I know. Fucking cliche. Still, a memorable line. Whenever I bring up the image of that truth-telling SAA woman in my mind, I hear this line in my head. She never said these words, but she spoke with an intensity that mirrored Nicholson's.

I had hooked up with a few members from the first SA/SAA groups I attended years ago. One hook up was a female, the others male. It was all fucked up. I was told by another member I could attend a different, women-only, meeting to avoid those folks I had fucked, and when I decided to share at that meeting, I spoke about trying to figure out why I was stupid enough to hook up with other SA/SAA members, all of whom had spouses. I could regurgitate some of the words that 12-step groups use when explaining why these hook ups are not healthy, but I had no understanding, no comprehension, of what it truly meant. My ignorance was all tangled up with past abuse and current rationalizations. When I was through sharing, this woman spoke up. She said she was in a monogamous relationship and was sexually sober 8 years.

She was an older lesbian. She let me know I was exactly the kind of person she once got to know outside of meetings, connecting on facebook and getting together for coffee or visits to the zoo or whatever, all under the guise of help, but knowing what would eventually happen. She said until I recognized this kind of behavior for what it was, and learned to remain accountable and honest about those situations, I would always find myself in those situations. She said me saying I was not breaking any vows so I was not doing any harm when I slept with married people was bullshit. She said that every time I ended up in these harmful relationships, I was reinforcing all of the lies I carried in my head. She tried to focus on how much damage this was doing to me, but the sentence that really got to me was when she said that the spouses of people I had fucked would have been hurt by an activity I was choosing to take part in. She said until I drew a line between myself and people in committed relationships, and daily chose not to cross it, I was going to be victimizing others, and letting others victimize me. She said I needed to attend closed groups for women only. She said I needed to decide I would not strike up outside connections with any lesbian members. She said I needed to walk into meetings with the honest intention that I was not going to allow sex to enter into my relationships with those in meetings for sex addiction. She told me I needed to speak those words at every meeting. I needed to say, at every meeting, that I was choosing to not sleep with those in SA/SAA groups I attended. And I needed to understand exactly what that meant. I needed to recognize the minute I was striking up a dangerous friendship. She said if I never did this for myself, every other member would know they could be in a relationship with me that was going to be exciting and titillating and was going to end up in sex that was victimizing and harmful to all involved.  She said every member was someone that could, in a moment of weakness, choose to rationalize pursuing the excitement of such a damaging relationship. She said only full honesty, in every moment, was going to keep each member from falling into destructive patterns. She said part of why she was sharing this was because she had caught herself wanting to walk up to me later after the meeting ended, offer to sponsor me, and begin the whole sexually charged, dishonest and harmful pattern of behavior that was the last thing any of us needed. She said that many other members avoid learning such honesty, and that was why so many members ended up damaging each other. She said some people chose to join SA/SAA meetings just to start such damaging relationships. She said I needed to find a female sponsor who had never been attracted to women, and even then, I needed to realize that all the lies I believed could make even those relationships potentially becoming sexual, so I needed to speak up honestly about any such feelings at meetings, because any secrets I kept were going to end in sexual relationships that harmed me and others. She said I might decide to ignore her words, because it was hard work to remain accountable to others. She said truth was hard to live.

She said a shitload of other things. I continue to carry, and more fully understand a lot of truths I learned from this woman. I learned how my adult behavior was reinforcing my warped beliefs from being sexualized as a child. I realized there was no way I could have ever learned all of this when I turned 18, or even in my 20's or 30's, which was why I had been re-exploited so many fucking times. At that meeting, I finally started to gain a bit of the knowledge I needed to protect myself. The way she spoke was so real. I later saw others who said some similar words, but were just saying those words to be able to let other members know that the speaker wanted to fuck them, so I know how truthful words can be used in harmful ways. Which made me realize how humans can rationalize anything, and can appear to be doing the right thing, even while victimizing others. People can be speaking the truth, right in front of others, and be respected by everyone, but continuing to victimize others in the very moments they are speaking the truth. Time plus behavior equals truth. Bullshit always stinks eventually. I learned that repeating the same behavior will always end where that behavior has always ended. And in all of this, the only one I can control is me. I decide to choose honesty. I cannot choose it for anyone else. But I can call bullshit when I see bullshit. Because once in awhile that does help someone else decide to face, and admit their bullshit. In the end, I guess that is part of why 12-step groups can work for people. Speaking truth to bullshit. 

I have not felt a need to attend meetings in years. I have friends who attend many of the different 12-step and other types of recovery groups. When honesty is priority,  that appears to be when there is the most success.

I have not knowingly hooked up with a partnered person in many years. And by never attending meetings with men, and avoiding lesbian/bi sponsors and friendships outside of meetings, I never hooked up with another member of 12-step groups I attended.

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